The Inertia Senior Editor
There's blood in the water.

There’s blood in the water.


The Inertia

An international team of ecologists and economists has made an incredibly scary prediction. In just a few short years, the world’s oceans will empty of fish. While that dire prophecy may seem a little alarmist, the scariest thing about it is that it is backed up with good ol’ science fact. It was published in Science, a publication that, if nothing else, does not publish bullshit. Cue terror in the streets.

Back in 2006, the study was done by a man named Boris Worm (whose hilarious name should not detract from his horrible prediction), who has a PhD from Dalhousie University in Halifax, Nova Scotia. Along with colleagues in the U.K, U.S., Sweden, and Panama, Worm has predicted that by the year 2048, the ocean will be devoid of fish – which, if it occurs, would effectively end life as we know it on planet Earth.

In an effort to discover exactly what would happen to the world if there were no more fish in the ocean, the researchers analyzed all kinds of data. What they found was much worse than they suspected. “I was shocked and disturbed by how consistent these trends are – beyond anything we suspected,” Worm said in a news release.

After doing 32 thorough experiments on a variety of marine environments, the team of researchers looked at the history from the past 1,000 years in 12 different coastal regions around the world. Then they analyzed fishery data from 64 marine ecosystems and how nearly 50 protected ocean areas recovered after their protection.

The news was not good. Overfishing, habitat loss, climate change (yes), and pollution are driving numbers of most species into a faster and faster decline. Keep in mind this study was published back in 2006 – but since then, not much has changed. Not enough, anyway. When the study was released, just over 1% of the ocean was deemed protected. As of last year, the World Database on Protected Areas – run by the United Nations Environment Program – reported that only 2.8% of the ocean is protected, and much of that is only token protection that isn’t effectively enforced. “This isn’t predicted to happen,” said Nicola Beaumont, a PhD of the Plymouth Marine Laboratory, U.K. “This is happening now.”

The team of researchers responsible for the study said that the loss of species isn’t a slow moving phenomenon, either. We’re accelerating the problem even as we talk about fixing it. And it’s not an issue of food for humans at all, just in case you’re thinking that no fish only means no more tuna tatar. Everything in the ocean plays a vital role – think of it like the greatest balancing act ever, and everything involved depends on everything else to stay in sync. Human beings are the proverbial brick in the washing machine, if you will. Species in the ocean play a vital role in our own survival; among their accidental benefits to human life is filtering toxins from the ocean and controlling algae blooms, which if left uncontrolled by nature, can have disastrous effects.

“A large and increasing proportion of our population lives close to the coast,” said Worm. “The loss of services such as flood control and waste detoxification can have disastrous consequences.” As creatures that walk on land, we need the ocean pretty damn badly. But, “if biodiversity continues to decline,” says Beaumont, “the marine environment will not be able to sustain our way of life. Indeed, it may not be able to sustain our lives at all.”

Worm and his colleagues have come up with a few vague, large solutions, though. Pollution control, habitat maintenance, sustainable fisheries management, and of course, the creation of more (and bigger) ocean reserves. Those actions shouldn’t be thought of as expenditures, the team says. According to them, investing in the earth will pay off in spades – less natural disasters like so called super storms, a more sustainable fishing industry, and perhaps most importantly, overall human health.

SOURCES: Worm, B. Science, Nov. 3, 2006; vol 314: pp 787-790. News release, SeaWeb. News release, American Association for the Advancement of Science and CBS News.




  • Jeff Byrnes

    I’m so glad I don’t have kids.

    We’re an embarrassment to creation.

    • CommonSense

      I feel for those who rely on the bounty of the ocean for their livelihood. However, they have to have some forethought because it is no secret that we have over fished the oceans something fierce. I believe the Gov’t just shut down Cod fishing on the North East coast due to drastically decreased numbers of Cod. The fisherman are bitching that it is hurting them. I guess they don’t realize that if the Cod population completely collapses they are screwed even worse.

      • Jeff Byrnes

        Crunch the data and you’ll quickly realize that everyone on this planet relies on the bounty of the ocean.

        If (or perhaps when) this massive economic juggernaut goes bust due to its mindlessness the effects will be globally catastrophic for humans.

        Science got it wrong: we’re not adaptable so much as highly parasitic. But even most other parasites prefer symbiosis since those that don’t perish.

  • Ryan

    I see what your suggesting, its an interesting thought, stocking wild populations…. peforming this feat in the sea im sure is a lot harder than just throwing a couple of cows in a paddock with a bull and out come calfs which grow to be cows, its a complex interconnected world down there, and one that we barely understand, we have to have an idea what we are doing before we just chuck a heap of sprats or fertilised eggs in the ocean somewhere, and hope for the best, most fishermen are not scientists and are just trying to make a living, but yes i agree fishing and marine science need to be now hand in hand. I know wild stocking is actively practised with salmon and trout stocks and other freshwater species, and i’ve even heard it been done in estuaries in NSW, Australia, but these are mostly for recreational fishing stocks, im sure its more widespread than i know. It definately seems a way forward and im sure we are very capable to achieve it for most fish species, it is afterall though playing god. I think in this period of time, at this stage of the events the first approach should be more around the lines of enforcing tougher quota’s upon commercial catches. I can claim to be a first hand witness to the success of such practices in Australia, we have even managed to record rising populations of southern blue fin, from when we nearly wiped them out in the 70s and 80s, though they are still too heavily fished, the same with many deepwater species like gemfish and mirror dory, that i know of. The other practice i think should be the globalisation and strengthening of international fisheries and fishing laws and regulations so we can manage the entirety of human extraction from the sea, because as we know fish move between different borders, and many can be highly nomadic, for instance the Southern Blue fin farmed and caught in South Australian waters breed in the Indian Ocean far far away. Also the building of marine reserves where necessary would be great to help fish stocks recover, grow, and maintain themselves, then we can start worrying about messing around with the promising sustainable practise of restocking wild fish. BTW im going to start researching about that right away very interested

    • Ryan

      When we speak of certain fish being “critically endangered” there are for that one fish species many more species that are thriving, simply because they are not pressures by any commercial interest, i can speak as a first hand witness to this as im an active recreational fisherman who fishes mostly for my own plate not for sport, and i fish nearly every day after work for dinner, and bring something home without fail, I live and fish in one of the busiest harbours in the world, Sydney Harbour, and fish species here iare overwhelmingly numerous and healthy more so than ever before according to most including some very old local fisherman, though this is mostly due probably to the suspension of commercial fishing in the harbour, commercial fishing still continues once your out of the headlands sheltering the harbour entrance and so it is prrof that a controlled, strict quota enforced fishery can be as healthy as any, this morning i passed a pod of more than 100 common dolphins ferry penguins and a seal to get to my fishing ground, these were alll within the bounds of the harbour, forgive me if im a witness to this and then can hardly believe all these fish will dissapear, anyways sorry for my rambling, my main idea i wanted to put forward, is that we should attempt to target species that are in abundance for commercial fishing, to take pressure of the heavily fished stocks, but not many want to trade their tuna steak for a blackfish fillet, thats the tricky part….

  • MaryFinelli

    The best solution is to promote the many healthful, humane, genuinely environmentally sustainable plant-sourced (i.e. vegan) alternatives. Better for us, for the animals, and for the planet. We can thrive without consuming animals/animal products. To truly respect animals and care about life on Earth is to not cause needless harm to them.

    • Albee Doh

      Too idealistic and doomed to fail as an agenda.

      Nature doesn’t care about life on Earth or respecting any of it. It’s a harsh fact but a fact none the less.

      Life feeds on death, literally. It’s a tough pill but ya’ gotta swallow it.

      How we go about the business of taking life is what really needs further discussion. Keep the supply well stocked and minimize the suffering AMAP.

      • MaryFinelli

        Besides being a moral imperative, an animal-free diet is increasingly becoming an environmental necessity, as acknowledged by the United Nations Environment Programme and other leading environmental entities.

        Unlike species who genuinely need to eat animals, we do not and we are able to instead opt for a diet that does not include them. It’s a matter of intellect and will.

        • Albee Doh

          I’m not entirely in disagreement (though not entirely in agreement, either) but your agenda has zero chance of succeeding, especially in the time frame that people making this argument posit.

          Any position that fails to acknowledge the reality so completely has no chance and is tantamount to pissing up a hemp rope.

          I don’t mean to shit on your rainbow but the fact is that getting people to give up meat is just laughable, regardless of what the inevitable outcome is.

          And the environment ain’t goin’ nowhere. At least not until a comet – or our sun – smokes the planet (which is gonna happen). The environment will inevitably recover from us by getting rid of us, if that is our choice (and that seems to be the case).

          And we are, matter of fact, an omnivore. We do not have the digestive system of a purely vegetarian animal. While willpower is a factor when you belittle someone’s intellect you immediately begin to lose an argument of this nature.

          • Kalli

            Can you live healthy by only eating meat? Naw. You’d be deficient in many nutrients. On the other hand, a meat-free diet can provide you with all the nutrients you need. That should tell you enough–that humans are herbivores but CHOOSE to be omnivores. They trick themselves into thinking they are omnivores, but really they aren’t. It’s a delusion. Now with that said, I agree that getting the world to stop consuming meat is a fantasy. It will never happen. Humans are too ignorant. Our goal as human beings should be to take every realistic measure such as taking steps to further minimize overfishing.

          • Albee Doh

            Sorry, but you’re wrong. We have the digestive system of an omnivore. That’s a biological fact.

          • Michelle Mauler

            Not exactly. We can’t digest carrion. We’re only omnivorous in the same sense as chimpanzees and bonobos. Very semi-occasionally.

          • Albee Doh

            Right, because we’re restricted to the same diet as those other primates.

            Get real.

          • Michelle Mauler

            Deer will eat hamburgers from dumpsters, and prefer that to their real diet. Does that make them omnivorous? We’re not restricted because we have technology and cook our food. It proves nothing.

          • Albee Doh

            Semi-occasionally?

            The bonobo diet is about a third to nearly one half animal-based. They eat eggs, insects, and various invertebrate as well as vertebrate species, including small mammals that range in size from a squirrel to a dog.

            Nice try.

          • Michelle Mauler

            Kill off two billion people. Problem solved.

          • Albee Doh

            How exactly?

          • Albee Doh

            So I guess you and your family are volunteering to be among those 2 billion to be killed off?

            See how that works?

            Let me know how your genocide campaign goes for you.

          • Rick Cox

            @Mary – I have to agree with Albee. Here’s another point to add – the tale is in the teeth. Front teeth are for tearing apart meat. Back teeth for plant consumption. When people get the idea that they should go vegan, you are going against your biological makeup. I knew a vegan. She became anemic. Meat is great for you. Maybe less meat and the right meat should be the focus.
            Now concerning the oceans – guy took a trip and traveled across the Pacific. From when he did this 10 years ago, it’s pretty sad. No birds flying around, slimy unidentifiable sludge/slim in ocean. Trash, etc. He went thru some of the island chains and saw first-hand and saw another issue. Locals are getting paid to grab the fish industry needs. They don’t release the ones they don’t need (they die on the docks (how much effort does it really take to throw the ones you don’t need back – unless you are not getting paid to do it). I don’t blame the locals for trying to make a buck but there is no enforcement or overseeing of that issue (different nation, different rules, different headaches). They won’t police themselves. The overfishing in international waters has to stop as well. But who is going to enforce it?

          • wtfff

            you are the type of person holding back society : and read up on some science pls

          • Albee Doh

            Yup, that’s me. Mr. Scientifically Illiterate. Because my studies at UCSB, which were in Environmental emphases, didn’t introduce me to any science and scientific research. Maybe I just wasn’t paying any attention in class as my A- average and “Distinction in the Major” apparently indicate. And the articles I wrote supporting native species had nothing to do with science. And I subscribe to Lawrence Krauss, Sam Harris, NdGT, Michio Kaku, and other notables in the scientific community just to fool people. And my good buddy and former roommate in Santa Cruz, a professional physicist, whom I shared a house with for two years, only told me about guys like Niels Bohr to taunt me. Oh, and I’m so anti-intellectual that said physicist received this parting gift from me that I drew with Sharpie pens because it seemed a fitting way to poke fun at smart people – like you:

          • wtfff

            cool wall of text, but not eating animals is better for your health and better for the environment

          • Albee Doh

            “Cool” feeble dismissive comment. And you’re wrong. Some meat is fine and even good for health. I trust Michael Polan, not you.

          • wtfff

            ignore the bulk of the nutritional science research thus far if you wish

          • Albee Doh

            Let’s see your sources. Polan relies on empirical scientific evidence and research.

    • Robert Cook

      A Vegan diet is absolutely doomed to failure.

      By moving to such, we will leech every last drop of nutrients form the soil and kill off our ability to produce plant matter for eating on.

      We’re already well on our way to doing that as is.

      We must have a diversity of food materials to survive.

      A purely vegan population is entirely unsustainable.

      We simply have too many people on earth, and that has got to change.

      When the crunch stats humanity will self regulate by simply killing itself off. Unless we start doing something about it now, which may already be too late as is.

      • MaryFinelli

        It’s animal agriculture that is depleting and polluting soil and water sources, plus doing a lot of other environmental damage. Fishing is environmentally destructive in other ways. That’s why environmental authorities are urging the move toward plant-sourced diets.

        • Robert Cook

          Animals do their damage. Yes. But they also return MUCH more quickly to the soil than plants do.

          Field rotation for animal pastures is not nearly as required as it is for crops. Crops ravage and destroy the nutritional value of the soil they are in.

          We absolutely need both animals and plants to survive.

          Purely plant agriculture would also put a massively huge strain on our water resources. more so than they already are, because of he geometric increase in plant growth requirements to replace the meat in our diets. Not to mention the amount of even greater deforestation required to have the area needed to do that.

          Going purely vegan is a pipe dream right now, and not sustainable.

          At our population levels, none of it is long term sustainable. Until you cure that problem, you are not going to cure the food problems we are facing in the future.

          • MaryFinelli

            Robert, you really should research some credible sources about that information. You have it quite backwards. The facts of the matter are increasingly becoming common knowledge, thank goodness. Now if only more people would act on it with meaningful changes in their daily lives.

          • Albee Doh

            Really? I guess what I was taught at UCSB in my enviro emphases wasn’t credible or reliable. Right.

            BTW, one word: ostrich.

            Check it out.

          • Albee Doh

            Mary, you’re referencing large scale industrial meat production. There are many farms that produce low-impact meat.

            The real issue is one of scale.

          • MaryFinelli

            Small-scale animal agriculture can have even greater environmental impact due, for example, to more land being required per animal. Whatever the scale, it is inhumane and an inefficient use of resources.

          • Albee Doh

            “Can” is totally speculative. It is not the same as “does.” You need to be specific as your statement is far too vague and misleading. Just because something “can” be this or that does not at all mean that it is. “Inhumane” is a pretty subjective term. Nature is inhumane, it has to be in order for life to exist at all. Life is not possible without death. That’s a fact. How we as humans go about the process is a subject worth discussing but the process itself is necessary. As for “inefficiency,” that is also entirely dependent on the variables.

  • Being that offensive is kinda ridiculous too though. But welp.

    • Albee Doh

      Right. Because Michelle’s assertion that mass murdering 2 billion people as “problem solved” won’t be offensive to anyone.

      You rock the ass hat like a champ.

      • If you read it again you will notice the usage of the word ‘too’.

        • Albee Doh

          Your grammar sucks.

          • So does your argumentation. By the way I am a brazilian person who was self taught in English and holds a CPE. What languages do you speak again? I speak Portuguese, English, Japanese and Spanish.

          • Albee Doh

            You forgot to include “pretentious.”

            Get fucked, kook.

          • Welp. Have a good day.

      • Michelle Mauler

        Never said it wasn’t offensive. Of course it’s offensive. I meant it to be offensive, because people would rather do that, than have fewer kids, or change their diets. Eating meat is about as natural for us. We do not have the digestive systems of deer, but we also do not have the digestive systems of opossums, raccoons, bears, rats, or other true omnivores. We have the digestive system of a bonobo, regardless of what we decide to eat in spite of that fact. Our teeth are not those of a true omnivore either.

        • Albee Doh

          So many slippery slopes I think I’ll bring my air mat.

        • Albee Doh

          Could you supply verifiable, peer reviewed documents that verify your assertion that humans are not omnivores?

  • Albee Doh

    That is mostly targeting factory farming. And an emotionally charged YouTube video just doesn’t cut it as a valid, reputable source. BTW, I’ve seen heaps of similar videos and have forwarded them many times. I loathe factory farms myself but simply eating meat in moderation in and of itself is not a bad thing. You gotta get real with the fact that EVERYTHING is food for something else. No exceptions. Minimize suffering and maximize health, sure. But your position is too detached from reality which is why it will never succeed.

    • wtfff

      looks like you didnt refer to the description. the research says nothing about factory farming. and i never knew research could be ’emotionally charged’. keep making excuses

      • Albee Doh

        Don’t have that option when viewing on my phone. You could have picked a better video. The music was awful and intentionally agitating. Try to find something with less hyperbole. It makes you look unstable.

        • wtfff

          LOL. keep ignoring blatant facts and bringing the attention elsewhere. me unstable? hahahaha.

          • Albee Doh

            I’m not ignoring the facts at all, I’m accepting ALL of them, including the ones I’m unhappy with. You only look at a narrow set of facts and reject all others. That is a sign of mental instability.

            The fact is that there are sustainable methods of meat production. Ostrich is a particularly low-impact, high-yield meat producer. Tastes great as well. That’s just one example among many.

            You’re an exceedingly biased person. You’re also hostile and dismissive. That discredits your arguments, with or without my input.

            “Get ahold of yourself, man!!!”

          • wtfff

            yet its still worse than plant production, what a shame. keep making stupid decisions, i cant stop you

          • Albee Doh

            Nope. All things are a matter of scale. Plenty of crops contribute to environmental decay and destruction.

          • wtfff

            plants are fed to animals so we can then eat the animals. smh, you still dont understand. if we ate the plants directly, its obviously more sustainable. doesnt take an Einstein to figure this out, man

  • Albee Doh

    BTW, when the Conklin Farms horror video first got out and I still had Facebook I circulated it to thousands of people along with a petition to fine and shut them down. You’re arguing with the wrong person and wasting time that would be better spent educating others who actually need it. Go get ’em, tiger lily.

  • wtfff

    “Big caveat: Both of these studies looked at the role of diet in evolution. They aren’t a commentary on whether modern-day eating habits, carnivorous or not, are healthy.” What is your point then?

    • Albee Doh

      The most cancer free society in the world eats fish.

      • wtfff

        lmao. good job making bold sweeping claims. the only benefit fish has are the omega-3s. i get those from algae oil. i also avoid all the metallic pollutants that come with fish like mercury, etc… as well as its saturated fat and cholesterol.
        Nice try I guess, that was cute 🙂

        • Albee Doh

          All you’ve done is offer “bold sweeping claims” and a YT video.

          WHERE IS YOUR SCIENCE.

          Let’s see verifiable, peer reviewed scientific data from reputable sources.

          Your condescending, childish name calling hyperbole and ad hominem nonsense discredits you and your arguments.

          Drop the Fox News rhetorical strategies and let’s see if you’re capable of conducting yourself in a mature manner on this topic.

          • wtfff

            LOL the yt video had like 10-15 scientific research papers included in it. good job avoiding the SCIENCE

            youre obviously not very smart.

          • Albee Doh

            I want the links. Choosing a video set to music that is immensely distracting and agitating was a bad choice.

            Just post the links to the papers. Stop dodging.

          • wtfff

            the only one here dodging is you, but good to know you have some kind of attention deficit disorder. the music wasnt even special. anyway, ill reply with the links but theyll need to be approved first

          • Albee Doh

            Just finished reading that article you posted. Half of it was merely pimping pharmaceuticals. It totally ignored lack of exercise as a component and ignored meatless fried foods. There are many meatless diets that produce the same health issues discussed in the article.
            The Dr. also repeatedly referenced herbivores and omnivores while totally ignoring omnivorous species.

            Epic fail.

            And the more you keep resulting to petty insults to attack those you disagree with the lamer you and your arguments look.

            Grow up.

  • Albee Doh

    Did you even read that? The first three pages are filled with dodges. When asked about omnivores the Dr. keeps talking about herbivores and carnivores. Humans have neither claws nor hooves. The human digestive tract is neither strictly like that of a herbivore nor is it strictly like that of a carnivore.

    You’ve got a serious confirmation bias issue, meaning you only read and reference material that confirms your agenda while it ignores other factual data.

    I can never take people who can’t avoid going on the attack seriously.

    Your arrogance is self-defeating.

    • wtfff

      omnivores dont get heart disease from eating meat you nincompoop, nor do they cook their meat. god i cant even bother replying to your other posts, youre too stupid to comprehend common sense information

      • Albee Doh

        HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

        You’re a liar and an idiot.

        Omnivores that eat too much of anything will suffer for it, meat or otherwise. You can get heart disease from a meatless diet as well.

        • wtfff

          youre a dumbass who doesnt understand the effect of cholesterol and saturated fat. not to mention meat is a class 1 carcinogen. damn this is too funny, anyway im out for good now. have fun with that heart disease or any of the other dozen diseases linked to animal products 😉

          • Albee Doh

            Frying vegetables in vegetable oils also contributes to maladies like heart disease.

            In the doc, “Supersize Me,” there is a person who eats McD’s every day for every meal. And he’s in perfect health. One woman who lived past 100 was asked her secret to health, she said, “I never ate any vegetables.”

            Keep lying and I’ll keep telling the truth.

          • wtfff

            obviously oil isnt healthy. were not arguing about that. L. mcdonalds is devoid of many essential nutrients. man. please keep going.

          • Albee Doh

            Depends on what you eat at McD’s. You’re obviously not aware of the fact that McD’s consistently finishes in the top ten of the healthiest fast food restaurants. In fact, they’re among the first to have offered healthier menu options of all the major chains. They were also the first to conspicuously post nutritional info in their restaurants. McD’s is not my usual choice (I mostly go to Chipotle, Shop House, and Panda Express and always go with the vegetable options with some chicken mixed in). I only eat beef/steak a couple times a week (sometimes not even that) and almost never eat pork.

            And the more you ignore facts and keep lying the more I’ll “keep going.”

            You still haven’t read those sources you posted, apparently. Yeah, you’re a pillar of integrity.

          • wtfff

            the fact that you think mcdonalds is healthy…. LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL says a lot about what you know about nutrition

          • Albee Doh

            Yeah, because McD’s salads will clog your arteries and give you heart disease. And the Newman’s Own products they offer have always been known for their carcinogenic properties.

            Your research skills are for shit. You don’t bother to read your own references and then you lie about nearly everything.

            You have ZERO credibility.

          • wtfff

            oh talking about salads are we now? fucking dumbass lmao, were arguing about animal consumption

          • Albee Doh

            Talk like that to my face, tough guy.

          • Albee Doh

            I didn’t say McD’s is healthy, I said they consistently rank in the top ten of the healthiest fast food options, which is true.

            Says a lot about what you know about reading comprehension.

            You’re doing an awesome job of confirming the stereotype that vegans are self-righteous assholes who will tell any lie they feel is justified to promote their agenda and utopian vision of a death-free world.

            Bravo.

          • Albee Doh

            Really? Poultry is a class 1 carcinogen? Salmon is a class 1 carcinogen? Insects (which are eaten all around the world and increasingly in the US) are a class 1 carcinogen?

            There you go again with your lies. Good job!

          • Albee Doh

            You’re the dumbass who doesn’t even bother to read the references you post.

            All of your links conflate myriad causes without making necessary distinctions between them.

            Idiot.

          • wtfff

            bahahaha. keep eating yourself to bad health retard

          • Albee Doh

            Keep lobbing petty insults at people to further discredit your feeble self, troll.

            Every lifeguard I work with eats some meat. They’re in amazing shape. Even the old guys.

            As for who is in superior health how about you and I do a paddle to Catalina Island in, say, August. Should give you enough time to get ready.

          • wtfff

            funnily enough, youve provided NO RESEARCH while ive provided a bunch. keep talking out of your ass. and yeah, ill trust your word over sound scientific research. deffs man.

          • Albee Doh

            I did provide links to verifiable and reputable studies. So there you go lying again.

            None of your links focused on specifics. In fact, ALL of them conflated information that bundled a variety of issues together.

            Your data fails to distinguish between factory farmed/antibiotic fed/ artificially enhanced meats vs organics. Your data also fails to discuss the amount and type of meat consumed and entirely ignores the difference between those who eat too much vs those who maintain a balanced diet and get exercise. Your data also bundles a lot of other factors into the mix (tobacco, sugar, oils, fats, etc.) to draw its spurious conclusions.

            There is no data confirming that most to all people who eat meat occasionally, while also getting regular exercise and eating fruits and vegetables daily, suffer from the maladies you claim. Quite the opposite.

            Kelly Slater is not a vegan.

            ‘Nuff said.

          • wtfff

            why did you reply to my comments twice lol. again, you provided no research. ive already proved meat is bad for you 😛 vegans are also the longest living group in the world and lowest BMI, and vegan diets have reversed heart disease. keep living in ignorance 😀

          • Albee Doh

            If that’s true then why haven’t you posted that data from a .edu and/or .gov site?

            Let’s see the data.

            Again, name the tour surfers and any other group of high performance athletes in which the majority are vegans.

            I’ll be waiting…

          • wtfff

            what do the number of vegans competing in high performance athletics have anything to do with this?

          • Albee Doh

            You’re joking, right?

          • wtfff

            and it doesnt need to be a from a .edu or .gov site for it to be scientifically correct lol

          • Albee Doh

            If the data your referencing isn’t being verified by university and/or government scientists and researches I’m not buying it. Neither should anyone else.

          • wtfff

            keep proving your ignorance :DDD

          • Albee Doh

            “Correlation does not imply causation.”

            Representative samples of a broad range of control groups is essential when applying the scientific method.

            Every one of your references fail to isolate crucial variables. Seventh Day Adventists are an example of outliers, they are NOT representative of the far more complex

          • Albee Doh

            Funny, I’m nearly fifty and just about everyone thinks I’m ten years younger.

            If that’s being a retard I’ll take it.

            Keep the ad hominems coming, it’s doing wonders for your credibility.

      • Albee Doh

        And you’re too stupid to realize how contradictory this comment of yours is.

        Keep the comedy flowing. I always appreciate a good laugh, especially at the expense of dingle berries like you.

        • wtfff

          bahahaha again you have nothing to say 😀

          • Albee Doh

            “Again?”

            Keep the laughs coming, fool. The court is amused.

  • Albee Doh

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

    The more I read the more I realize how much you really f-ed up by posting this article.

    Many of the health issues the Dr. points to can result from a purely plant based diet. Gluten is an issue for many and exists in plant based foods. Diabetes? Too much sugar, a plant.

    The study careens all over the place (smoking?!?) instead of focusing exclusively on meat consumption and/or diets that moderate meat with higher levels of plant intake.

    There are apes that eat bugs. They don’t get sick or fall over and die even though some of these bugs are loaded with formic acid.

    Cinnamon is poisonous and will kill you if eaten in too large a dose. Same with raw spinach when ingested too regularly.

    Get it?

    A properly balanced diet is what is necessary, whether that includes meat or not.

  • Albee Doh

    You didn’t even read these, you lying sack of shit.

    None of these studies blame meat consumption exclusively for the related health issues. Many of the foods mentioned, oils in particular, that contribute to the health problems commonly seen in Western societies are plant based, which is confirmed in every one of these articles and reports.

    Too much of certain types of meats, mammals being the biggest factor, do have negative health effects. But almost nowhere do these articles emphasize the total elimination of all meats from a person’s diet. The exceptions are few and very specific to certain types of people who are representative of a dietary minority.

    BTW, I looked further into the bonobo diet. Turns out about a third to nearly half their diet is comprised of meat from both vertebrates and invertebrates.

    You should probably read what you post before using it to prop up your BS arguments.

    Thanks for providing the nails to your arrogantly argumentative coffin.

    I’m done with you. Take your lies to the gullible idiots boneheaded enough to buy into them.

  • Albee Doh

    Yeah, we’re not going to agree. You and I appear to have different ideas about what constitutes abuse. Ethics and morals are ambiguous and culturally relative. Causing less suffering is not the same as the cessation of all suffering and killing, which is impossible. I point to nature because we ARE nature. Any form of “morality” that has zero chance of succeeding is no morality at all, it is a pipe dream, a chimera, the delusional machinations of people unwilling – and perhaps simply incapable – of facing reality as it is.

    BTW, some people go begging to get their asses beat – or worse. Nothing I – nor you – can do to change that.

    And that website doesn’t cut it as an unbiased source. Not even close.

    • MaryFinelli

      Knowingly causing needless harm to a non-consenting sentient being is abuse by any defensible definition of morality.

      It’s not a matter of eliminating suffering, it’s a matter of not causing unnecessary suffering, which we can best accomplish with a vegan diet. That is very possible and is a moral imperative.

      The website sites credible sources and includes embedded links. Stop trying to make excuses for animal abuse.

      • Albee Doh

        Excuses? I’m not making excuses, this is just how life is. All I’m offering is an explanation, NOT an excuse. There is a considerable difference. The closest we’re going to get to an agreement is that I feel it’s important to minimize the suffering as much as possible when killing animals. There are many reasons to do so, one being that the longer an animal suffers in death the more toxic the meat becomes.

        Mary, we’re never even going to get to a place in time when humans stop killing each other, which we do by the millions every year. And you think we’ll stop killing other animals? That’s totally delusional thinking. Until we get to a place in time when people aren’t torturing and mass murdering one another the other animals won’t stand a chance.

        Nature will continue to inflict horrible amounts of suffering upon itself long after our species has pushed itself into extinction.

        Now, it would be nice to steer this conversation back in the direction of the issue that the article addresses. If we don’t do something about the plastic oceans first your vegan agenda has as much chance of succeeding as a Jain looking for converts at an NRA rally full of white supremacists in Kentucky.

        • MaryFinelli

          An explanation is not a justification.

          Minimizing the suffering of an animal while needlessly killing them does not justify killing them, be they human or other.

          That people are killing other people is certainly a problem but does not justify your causing nonhuman animals to be needlessly killed.

          We can work to remedy plastic pollution while remedying other problems, too, like harmfully exploiting animals for food. It’s much easier to remedy one’s contribution to the latter than to the former. Just stop doing it.

          • Albee Doh

            Yup. An explanation and a justification are not the same. I feel no need to “justify” eating meat. I feel no guilt over it any more than a shark or tiger or bear or bonobo feels any guilt, remorse, or need to justify killing for food.

            I’m not going to stop eating meat. I even feel that it is necessary to kill certain people under specific circumstances. I will never feel guilt over it, either. Do I delight in it? No. But I don’t delight in the knowledge that I will die one day, possibly brutally. I accept this fact because it is necessary and unavoidable. That’s life. Literally.

            I don’t interpret taking life to feed on it as “needless,” quite the opposite. I only feel that people should only eat as much meat as is healthful in accordance with a balanced diet. Like bonobos humans optimize nutrition by eating about a 1/4 to 1/3 meat and the rest being plant-based. It’s a ratio I follow. I also minimize mammalian meat and would likely eat only fish if I could do so all the time.

            If people in general trended in this direction it would have huge benefits for both human and environmental health. It’s a far more realistic target than your “vegan planet” mission. But even I know that getting the majority of people to adopt this is a pipe dream.

            There are many things about humans and life in general I don’t agree with, but I also know it is futile to think it will ever change so I accept it, warts and all.

            Our species will destroy itself. It will destroy many others in the process. This is a certainty. I’ve accepted it. I’ve also forgone having children because the science pretty much confirms that humans will suffer a mass die-off in the coming century. I wouldn’t want any children of mine to suffer through that horror and almost certainly be killed off along with it.

            You cannot control people. Every attempt to do so has failed – miserably.

            Live your life as you see fit but I highly recommend giving up on the vegan utopia. Clinging to this vision will only bring you unhappiness as it is doomed to fail.

          • wtfff

            youre everything thats wrong with society, keep proving it

          • Albee Doh

            Right. Yet you’re the guy who posts links he doesn’t read and lies to promote an agenda based on spurious claims.

            Yeah, you’re a pillar of integrity.

  • Albee Doh

    These “references” make broad, sweeping generalizations. They don’t offer any info on the amount of meat consumed by particular people nor do they distinguish between factory farmed meats and organic, free range alternatives. Most people who eat meat consume factory farmed meat that has been caged and fed hormones and antibiotics along with pesticide-laden feeds. Many factory farms also cannibalize the feed, despite laws prohibiting this.

    Your research skills are, at best, laughable.

    You’re a farce.

    Strike that, you’re a fraud.

    • wtfff

      that previous video i linked proved the obvious link between animal products and heart disease but you ignore that as well 😀

      • Albee Doh

        Wrong. The video referenced only a narrow set of data that conflated information and wrongly attempted to bundle all meat together into a single general category.

        People who eat meat, in moderation, raised on pastures and fed organic feeds that are natural for them are healthy.

        Your video fails to distinguish between factory farmed meats vs. organically and ethically raised alternatives. The video also fails to distinguish between people who overeat as opposed to those who maintain balanced diets.

        Fail. Fail. Fail.

        You don’t understand the scientific method at all.

  • Albee Doh

    Awesome. More links that make broad sweeping generalizations and fail to distinguish between various factors.

    Do you even know what the scientific method is? Doesn’t look like it.

    How many vegans are on the WCT and WQS?

  • wtfff

    tldr; youre a moron if youre arguing with me so i didnt bother to read what you wrote

    • Jim Sleazy

      Oh yes because you are always right vegan vagina

      • wtfff

        uhh yeah, its called ‘science’.

      • wtfff

        animal agriculture is the leading cause of environmental destruction bb. simple facts.

        • Albee Doh

          Ahhhh… no. That would be the fossil fuel industry and all the industries tied to it, which is most of them.

          • wtfff

            lol, thats obviously not true 😀 anyway, this was fun. cya

        • Jim Sleazy

          Really? I thought that people were the leading cause of environmental destruction. Leave my sustainably farmed beef out of it. If you want to do the world a favour just stop eating. The fact that you have trolled and trolled and trolled and trolled everyone ending your rants with asinine web speak makes me question your age and intelligence. The simple fact is people are a virus and should be removed from the environment. Starting with holier than thou hipster vegans like yourself with their armchair captain planet attitude. I have one question to ask you, and that is what have you done for the earth besides jumping on the hippie vegan bandwagon? Probably nothing but I await your reply.

          • wtfff

            LOL animal products and ‘sustainable’ in the same sentence. key indicator to stop reading. youre a dumbass.

          • Jim Sleazy

            Go oil your beard. Fake lumberjack pumpkin latte drinking idiot. You can farm sustainably. But you are too stupid to work out how to offset greenhouse gas emissions and use manure to grow the feed. Enjoy your kale smoothie and go be pc Greenpeace at your local starbucks

          • wtfff

            youre too stupid to understand that animals eat plants and its inefficient when we could just eat the plants ourselves. you believe only what you want to believe 😀

  • Albee Doh

    With proponents like you the movement you so wish to see take over the world doesn’t need enemies.

    Keep shooting your movement in the foot, brain trust.

    • wtfff

      blablabla, have you anything to actually say?

      • Albee Doh

        You’re doing a great job of making vegans look like the raging assholes most people take them for.

        No wonder it’s a doomed movement.

        Apparently you’re unfamiliar with the idiom, “you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar.”

        Trying to sell people on something by telling them they’re losers if they don’t is a failed strategy. But you go right ahead and keep doing your part to torpedo your own agenda, killer.

  • Albee Doh

    Funny, scrolling thru your comments we seem to be on the same side of the argument. Not sure why you bundled me in with these clowns. Have you been sniffing the methane again? You don’t have to rub your face in it to know what you’re smelling, you know. But by all means, get as shit-faced as you wannna.

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